What Political Party Do You Align Yourself With?

if most of our country DOES despise Bush, why should other countries not know? we shouldn't be responsible for his image in other countries. that has already been flouted by American pop culture.

and we do bully others around, come on. don't be so naive to think that because we don't literally slap other countries around we don't influence them! having pride in one's country is one thing, but our country is becoming way too confident. why should we be able to have nukes but others can't? what gives us the authority to tell countries that they can't possess the same weapons we do? we can eliminate them, but they can't eliminate us? "we are responsible" is not a proper defense for that.

I wasn't comparing our lives to theirs (and I have friends in Iraq, too). I am saying that we should know what we are doing, and have a firm footing ourselves, before meddling with the affairs of another country. My math teacher TODAY just said that the only reason there are more girls in college than boys is because girls work harder, and that girls will become dominant in society if guys don't stop being lazy. Our system still needs repairs, we shouldn't be lending out our men to "patch up" another pipe.

Patch up? And who exactly do you think that the UN sends every single time they run into a snag? US Army. Or perhaps US Marines. How can you honestly criticize Bush for having a backbone when no one (and I repeat NO ONE) in the UN had one. How many times did the UN pass Resolutions to get Sadaam under control? And exactly how many did he follow?

Now, if most of the people in this country hate Bush, why oh why do all the liberal media stations use scewed polls? like has been mentioned here before, the poll includes 38% Republicans, 11% Independent, and 51% DEMOCRACT? if the media keeps using scewed polls, of course his numbers are going to go down.

And what in the world does the percent of girls in college to boys have to do with anything?

Silly liberals, trying to confuse us with trite and cliche.

I have just come across some very interesting information concering Iraq and our own nation's capital. Enjoy.

Iraq?

If you consider that there has been an average of
160,000 troops in the Iraq Theater of operations
during the last 22 months that gives a firearm death
rate of 60 per 100,000.

The rate in Washington D.C. is 80.6 per 100,000.
That means that you are 25% more likely to be shot and
killed in our Nation's Capitol, which has some of the
strictest gun control laws in the nation, than you are in Iraq.

Conclusion: We should immediately pull out of Washington, D.C.

Ares wrote:Conclusion: We should immediately pull out of Washington, D.C.
Nice :).

annalyce wrote:if most of our country DOES despise Bush, why should other countries not know? we shouldn't be responsible for his image in other countries. that has already been flouted by American pop culture.
Actually, Americans are responsible for President Bush's image. You've forgotten that I've stated that Bush is the President, therefore, if his image falters, the entire nation's image falters under the eyes of the majority of rest of the nations!

annalyce wrote:and we do bully others around, come on. don't be so naive to think that because we don't literally slap other countries around we don't influence them! having pride in one's country is one thing, but our country is becoming way too confident. why should we be able to have nukes but others can't? what gives us the authority to tell countries that they can't possess the same weapons we do? we can eliminate them, but they can't eliminate us? "we are responsible" is not a proper defense for that.
In what ways does U.S. bully other nations? Please cite some sources from current events that show America is the bully. And please give me how U.S. is becoming "too confident." As for the nukes, don't you know that U.S. was able to create nuclear weapons before other countries in World War II? And for the reason why other countries can't have them; okay, let's have a look at North Korea. Hmm. Would you really want a Communist country going around dropping bombs on other nations so that Communism would spread (and please don't tell me you support Communists :D)? North Korea also is known for its connections with terrorists. So, don't you think that if North Korea was allowed to have nukes (they already do, without caring about the U.N.'s disapproval), think about the terrorists and Al Quida networks... Hmm, the world wouldn't look same. And let's look at America. I think America's more responsible with nukes than other countries. Why? Sure, U.S. dropped these weapons on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but that was prior to the knowledge of how devastating these weapons were. Would U.S. use these weapons? Of course not. Then why does U.S. still have it? Does it really matter - because would America really drop these bombs to reanimate horrors they had caused? America wouldn't just go around nuking countries they hate. If that happened, North Korea and other non-democratic countries wouldn't even exist!

annalyce wrote:I wasn't comparing our lives to theirs (and I have friends in Iraq, too). I am saying that we should know what we are doing, and have a firm footing ourselves, before meddling with the affairs of another country. My math teacher TODAY just said that the only reason there are more girls in college than boys is because girls work harder, and that girls will become dominant in society if guys don't stop being lazy. Our system still needs repairs, we shouldn't be lending out our men to "patch up" another pipe.

Um...you actually were. Remember...you looked at U.S. to Iraq in suicides, death tolls, women's role in U.S... And it's true. There are slightly higher percentage of women than men in college. But don't you think that all systems of government has its own flaws? No form of government is ever complete, so you can't perfect democracy in America. The Founding Fathers had placed some texts into the Constitution that were later found to be flawed, e.g. the right to vote for a black male - three-fifths would count as one white male's vote. And how is it that "we shouldn't lending out our men to 'patch up' another pipe?" If someone was in trouble and say, you were busy eating a sandwich, wouldn't you stop what you are doing and jump in to help them? This is why America is the leader of the nation. America comes in aid to everyone's needs. Look over the history of America and see how involved America was in the World Wars, Korean War, and Vietnam War. Despite U.S.'s own problems back then, America still helped. That's what makes America different from other nations - *and I'm not implying that U.S. is better than other countries :). *(oops, forgot not)

ok ok ok I'm trying to sort everything that you both are saying, and everything goes into the "you've gotta be kinding me" file.

1) Washington DC doesn't have soldiers patrolling the streets
2) The UN wasn't going to invade Iraq because THEY KNEW IT WAS WRONG.
3) Fine, I was comparing us to Iraq, but only to make the point that we are one of the most flawed countries in the world. We got lucky, and are in power. So what? For how long? Maybe another half-century unless we do something RIGHT for a change.
4) The "women in college" issue was only to show how people STILL discriminate against women.
5) Don't teach me US History, I know about the 3/5 Compromise.
6) America is to the world as a busybody is to a town - we need to mind our own business and stop thinking that we are so grand.
7) DON'T START ON VIETNAM. We did NOTHING to help the world then.
8) Why are we still making nukes if we aren't going to use them?
9) Maybe we should start being like other nations. Other countries are pulling out of Iraq - we should too. How is it benefitting us? Where are the "WEAPONS OF MASS DESCTRUCTION"? Why did we go attack some random country instead of focusing in on Osama bin Laden? BECAUSE THE COUNTRY WAS ISLAMIC. Bush, etc knew that we would believe that they were terrorists because THEY ARE ISLAMIC.
10)

Wow this has really turned into a heated debate. And now I get to join in. And FYI, I'm gonna have to agree with Annalyce on most of this stuff.

I've missed alot, so this could take awhile...

1. About socialism- Socialism will never work as long as greed and jealousy are parts of human nature in any one being.

2. Polls- There are very few equally divided polls anywhere in the world except for countries under communist rule. I'll bet you anything stations like FOX use polls tipped the other way.

3. Support for war- Yes, many people supported the war, but then the information changed...new information arose and then opinions changed.

4. Bush as a powerless figure head- in the eyes of politicians, basically yes. He cannot be elected so he's only there to serve the parties needs or he's going to turn Republicans against him, which, if I'm not mistaken, he's already started.

5. Gore- Gore should have won, he was just such a "nice guy" that he refused to fight the voting...Alas democrats, they have lost the will to fight. I think that he would make a good president...I like his views on the environment especially.

6. What is right?- that is entirely a personal decision.

7. Iraq war- I don't think it was a good cause. I think they did the same thing to us as they did for vietnam. And what you saw in Iraq AP_Work_R, well, there are always two sides to every story.

8. As to helping other countries- Do you notice a pattern in the countries you mentioned? THEY ALL HATE US!!!

9. Are we better than everyone else- You have unknowingly proven my point that yes, americans are extremely arrogant. You are comparing a primarily Muslim nation to us. How much do you know about their culture? Whose rules are the people supposed to follow? How many americans expect people to speak English in other countries? In our own country? How do you expect to impose upon these people a system that took us CENTURIES to come to?

10. Blaming Bush- I don't blame Bush for everything, however I do place blame upon Bush administration for an awful lot of things.

11. "Advising and directing" nations- Please, that's what they call it. But the reality in Iraq is this: Here's a format to follow, have elections on this date, meanwhile put this guy in charge, oh, and no more doing this....

12. Responsibility with nukes- Umm, I don't see any other countries using theirs either. So why exactly are we more responsible (point 9 perhaps?)

13. Question: how many wars did we actually strike first and who started them? And 9/11 was not an attack by Iraqi government.

14. UN involvement- some people actually like to think before they react.

15. Why Iraqi's hate us- Umm, lets see. Prewar- they had power, didn't have fear of being shot everyday, weren't occupied by foreign soldiers, were controlled by someone who is of the religion and values of the vast majority of the country. Post-war- no power, possibility of being shot anywhere, anytime, people telling you what to do in a language you don't speak, new rules that don't agree with your religion or ideals, etc.

16. Image- Bush holds the main responsibility for his image. If he goes against the general population, that's his choice and we have no power over how it looks.

annalyce wrote:3) Fine, I was comparing us to Iraq, but only to make the point that we are one of the most flawed countries in the world. We got lucky, and are in power. So what? For how long? Maybe another half-century unless we do something RIGHT for a change.
Luck? In what ways did America get so "lucky?" And define right. What is right? Is allowing innocent lives being murdered right? Is it right for a dictator to go around killing his own people?

annalyce wrote:4) The "women in college" issue was only to show how people STILL discriminate against women.
How is "women in college" issue a discrimination against women? I guess then "Asians" or "African-Americans in College" is discrimination against ethnic groups!

annalyce wrote:6) America is to the world as a busybody is to a town - we need to mind our own business and stop thinking that we are so grand.
Helping someone in trouble makes U.S. so "grand" or a show-off?

annalyce wrote:8) Why are we still making nukes if we aren't going to use them?
Hmm...you need to get your facts straight. U.S. hasn't been producing any nuclear weapons! Oh, wait, you can count some during World War II and couple years after it. But are they making any now?

annalyce wrote:9) Maybe we should start being like other nations. Other countries are pulling out of Iraq - we should too. How is it benefitting us? Where are the "WEAPONS OF MASS DESCTRUCTION"? Why did we go attack some random country instead of focusing in on Osama bin Laden? BECAUSE THE COUNTRY WAS ISLAMIC. Bush, etc knew that we would believe that they were terrorists because THEY ARE ISLAMIC.
Why? Why should America stop helping a country in need of help? If bunch of friends you were hanging out with started smoking and doing drugs just to be "cool," would you do it too? That's where America is different! It steps up to take a leadership position! Just because countries pulled their troops out, doesn't mean America should "follow the crowd." And War in Iraq is no longer the issue of "Weapons of Mass Destruction." Don't you realize that the main purpose is to rebuild Iraq? In spite of its terrorist problems, U.S. is still trying to help out. Oh and about Islam? Hmm. Then how come America isn't invading Afghanistan or Pakistan? Oh, wait. What about India? There are Hinduists there! Let's go America, and attack them!

pianogirl2422 wrote:3. Support for war- Yes, many people supported the war, but then the information changed...new information arose and then opinions changed.
Oh, so America should just get up, pack up weapons and soldiers, and leave what it had started unfinished and allow terrorists to continue taking innocent lives? What kind of irresponsible nation would do that? Look what happened in Vietnam. America just left the South to fend for itself. The result: well, communism took over but luckily, it failed. YET, have you considered the living conditions in Vietnam? Observe the Korean War. U.S. helped, finished the business and look at South Korea now. It became one of the fastest grown countries in decades! Large and impressive companies such as Samsung, LG, etc. emerged.

pianogirl2422 wrote:5. Gore- Gore should have won, he was just such a "nice guy" that he refused to fight the voting...Alas democrats, they have lost the will to fight. I think that he would make a good president...I like his views on the environment especially.
As for Gore...I do like his environmental views; he's more stronger in environment but not as effective in politics. But how would Gore have reacted to terrorist attacks in 9/11? Being a "nice guy", I guess he would've left Saddam Hussein all by himself to torture and murder innocent blood, just so that little "America" can be "safe." And so that America can somehow "avoid" Osama Bin Laden's attacks just by withdrawing from other nations.

pianogirl24229 wrote:. Are we better than everyone else- You have unknowingly proven my point that yes, americans are extremely arrogant. You are comparing a primarily Muslim nation to us. How much do you know about their culture? Whose rules are the people supposed to follow? How many americans expect people to speak English in other countries? In our own country? How do you expect to impose upon these people a system that took us CENTURIES to come to?
In what ways have I implied that Americans are extremely arrogant? And how have I compared Muslim nation to the U.S.? Americans don't expect other nations to speak English at all! Why is it then, is English so widely spoken? Hmm. The English language itself originated from Britain...and the newcomers of America brought the customs and language...we look at the English language and it has many, many words derived from the Latin and Greek language...major corporations and countries rely on U.S. for economy...
Oh and if you are thinking, "Um... No, countries don't rely on U.S. for economic support! U.S. is in debt!!!" But this is what strengthens American economy (another History, so if you are in AP U.S. History you should know this :)). When Alexander Hamilton created the U.S. National Bank, he purposely wanted the economy in America to be in debt. Why? Hamilton realized that there needs to be a "clash" between the person who owns the money and pays for an item, and the bank. Think of it this way. If you own a house (I'm not old enough... :(), and you recently bought it, is it entirely yours? No. Why not? Well, there are your "debts": electric bill, water bill, the gas bill, oh and don't forget about the food! And other bills? See where I'm getting at? Good.

pianogirl2422 wrote:11. "Advising and directing" nations- Please, that's what they call it. But the reality in Iraq is this: Here's a format to follow, have elections on this date, meanwhile put this guy in charge, oh, and no more doing this....
How has America then ordered or commanded Iraq around? Give me some specific examples.

pianogirl2422 wrote:13. Question: how many wars did we actually strike first and who started them? And 9/11 was not an attack by Iraqi government.
The answer: none. What about the war in Iraq? The terrorists started it! Why do you think America is in there trying to find Al Qaida and help Iraq gets its hold?

pianogirl2422 wrote:15. Why Iraqi's hate us- Umm, lets see. Prewar- they had power, didn't have fear of being shot everyday, weren't occupied by foreign soldiers, were controlled by someone who is of the religion and values of the vast majority of the country. Post-war- no power, possibility of being shot anywhere, anytime, people telling you what to do in a language you don't speak, new rules that don't agree with your religion or ideals, etc.
Actually, the Iraqi's did fear during "Pre-war." Don't you remember what Hussein did to his own people and the terrorist bombers in streets? Hmm...and if Hussein was a true Islam, then I guess you're implying that Muslims go around killing innocent people - their own people! So, I guess it's justified going to war to end a violent country... As for "Post-war," what are these "new rules," that the Iraqi citizens have to follow? And what about America's value of freedom of religion? If Iraq somehow became part of U.S., religion wouldn't be discriminated...hmmm, at least I think so under the First Amendment...Did they get rid of that?

pianogirl2422 wrote:16. Image- Bush holds the main responsibility for his image. If he goes against the general population, that's his choice and we have no power over how it looks.
Bush's image is America's image! Let's look at you and your parents. If you talked bad about your parents, hated them, called them "idiots" or "morons" for couple of mistakes, what would others think of you? "I guess that child and his/her parents are failures of this society!" This is what's happening in America right now. People are ruining their own image by ruining the President's image. And what do you mean by Americans "have no power over how it (Bush) looks?" Americans do have the power! It's called, "let's-stop-badgering-the-President-and-figure-out-how-we-should-resolve-the -problems-we-have-now." America shouldn't be separated over these issues because then democracy wouldn't exist! Americans are "families" and they need to work out their problems out without having to call each other "idiots" or blaming someone else - that's what families do! If America was in trouble, would any of the other nations have sympathy for it? Sure, maybe a little. But would they help America? Well...umm...response: "I don't want my fellow men to be hurt even though U.S. has helped rebuild my country. So... uh, can't help you, but I'll watch here 'safely.' Okay, then... Bye!"

Wow, I feel severely misunderstood :( . Although I doubt that you're going to agree with my view anymore once I clarify.

Here we go with the points again,

AP_Work_R wrote:Helping someone in trouble makes U.S. so "grand" or a show-off?

1. This is in response to Annalyce, but you responded similarly to me. My answer to this: Generally, yes if the one being helped doesn't ask for it.

2. Gore- I obviously have no hope of changing your mind here, so I'm not going to waste my time.

AP_Work_R wrote:Oh, so America should just get up, pack up weapons and soldiers, and leave what it had started unfinished and allow terrorists to continue taking innocent lives? What kind of irresponsible nation would do that? Look what happened in Vietnam. America just left the South to fend for itself. The result: well, communism took over but luckily, it failed. YET, have you considered the living conditions in Vietnam? Observe the Korean War.

3. When did I ever say that??? I do think that we should leave, but I know that we can't for several different reasons, mostly political....Unfortunately. And do you even know about Vietnam? You're comments suggest otherwise.

4. How many wars did we strike first?
Your answer: none.
This is probably my fault, I should have been more specific.

New question: How many wars did the U.S. participate in where there was no damage to U.S. citizens or property in or close to U.S. soil that can be directly linked to the government in charge?

Now, There's the Iraq war and the Vietnam war that I know of. I'm pretty sure that the Korean war falls under the same category.

AP_Work_R wrote:Bush's image is America's image! Let's look at you and your parents. If you talked bad about your parents, hated them, called them "idiots" or "morons" for couple of mistakes, what would others think of you? "I guess that child and his/her parents are failures of this society!" This is what's happening in America right now. People are ruining their own image by ruining the President's image. And what do you mean by Americans "have no power over how it (Bush) looks?" Americans do have the power! It's called, "let's-stop-badgering-the-President-and-figure-out-how-we-should-resolve-the -problems-we-have-now." America shouldn't be separated over these issues because then democracy wouldn't exist! Americans are "families" and they need to work out their problems out without having to call each other "idiots" or blaming someone else - that's what families do! If America was in trouble, would any of the other nations have sympathy for it? Sure, maybe a little. But would they help America?

5. You did not read my answer carefully. I said that the president is MAINLY responsible. I did not say that the American people had nothing to do with it.

AP_Work_R wrote:if Hussein was a true Islam, then I guess you're implying that Muslims go around killing innocent people

6. I can't quite see how you got to that...

That's all that I will defend for the time being. In my opinion, you do not know all of the conditions for the events that you speak of. I can see that you are set in your ways, so I won't keep trying to sway you for very long, although I may try a few more times if you post something that I feel I should respond to. I also think that you must remember that people taking AP courses and college courses represent a low percentage of this country's population. People who pass and truly comprehend are an even lower percentage.

I just noticed, I haven't answered the original question. I think I would most likely classify myself as a democrat, but I might vote for John McCain if Republicans would ever let him run.

I have clearly answered your questions, but I think you're misinterpreting my answers.

I don't feel like using your quotes, so you can refer back (sorry but takes like forever...you can do same :D).

How did I get the idea that America should leave? Well, you said yourself that the opinions for support of the war changed; therefore, you're implying that the citizens no longer wish to have the Americans in Iraq and withdraw them - hope that clears it up.

For your new question. My answer: in what wars is anyone or any country not damaged? So, what if some other country had a liberal/dictator/communist government and went to war, wouldn't citizens' properties, soils, etc., be damaged too? Shouldn't that government be responsible also? In all wars, sacrifices have to be made whether good or bad.

For #5, I did read your reply carefully. Please read the reply I've already made - sorry if it's too long :). But remember the comparison to Bush and family...please think it really, really through...(and please don't think that I think that you're dumb or anything). If you still can't grasp what I'm talking about I'll try to be as specific as possible.

For #6, I got that because you wrote (#15 on previous post): "...were controlled by someone who is of the religion and values of the vast majority of the country." Key words: vast majority - so I got the impression that you were saying all of Iraq agreed and accepted Hussein's regime since it followed with their religion and values.

I completely agree with your last statement. Not everyone who pass the AP tests understands history thoroughly - all of history has varying view points so in a sense, no point is the "best" or the ultimate, correct idea. But it comes down to whether or not the points would have a positive effect on the country.