Gay Marrige

Nymcha421;78480 wrote:
i don't think it's really a decision. also, what makes it NOT special if it's between two gay people?? can two gays not have relationships with god?

Marriage in the Christian fashion receives God's approval, which is between a man and woman. If two people have sexual intercourse and God does not recognize their marriage, then it is considered sin.

and like i said... can god not give approval to a marriage between two gays or lesbians?

Nymcha421;78598 wrote:and like i said... can god not give approval to a marriage between two gays or lesbians?

No, because he does not approve sin. Can God give approval to a marriage between siblings after the Mosaic Law? Can God approve of sex outside of marriage?

AP930;78609 wrote:No, because he does not approve sin. Can God give approval to a marriage between siblings after the Mosaic Law? Can God approve of sex outside of marriage?

Quite reassuring, then, that your God doesn't exist :)

Zasch;78614 wrote:Quite reassuring, then, that your God doesn't exist :)

That would be for another thread would it not?

Not really. You are using the supposition that your God exists in order to justify your opinions on gay marriage. Unfortunately, you've not defended that supposition, and thus unless you are willing to admit that you are simply taking it axiomatically, the question of the existence of your God becomes quite pertinent to the subject of gay marriage.

Zasch;78616 wrote:Not really. You are using the supposition that your God exists in order to justify your opinions on gay marriage. Unfortunately, you've not defended that supposition, and thus unless you are willing to admit that you are simply taking it axiomatically, the question of the existence of your God becomes quite pertinent to the subject of gay marriage.

Let's see the posts that I quoted.

Quote:
and like i said... can god not give approval to a marriage between two gays or lesbians?

In this case the person being quoted presupposes that God exists. Because I am building upon his supposition, I do not need any proof for the supposition. The question is not whether God exists, it is "If God exists, can he not give approval..."

Quote:i don't think it's really a decision. also, what makes it NOT special if it's between two gay people?? can two gays not have relationships with god?

See above.

Quote:well just going to say that nowhere in the old (original) version of the bible, that Ive found... please correct me if Im wrong, does it say anything about homosexuality... it was all added in later years...

In this case I was merely pointing out where in the Bible homosexuality was condemned. Whether God exists or not is irrelevant to whether the Bible condemns or ignores homosexuality.

Agreed, the existence of God has bearing on whether homosexuality, or any sin, can be condemned. However, in all the posts that I've made, the one being quoted assumes that God exists when making the question or statement.

Thus, thus any defense of the existence of God is irrelevant when answering his question.

Since you assume that God does not exist, then I need to justify the claim that God does not exist. However, that is for another thread; I don't want to derail the topic.

Quote:In this case the person being quoted presupposes that God exists. Because I am building upon his supposition, I do not need any proof for the supposition. The question is not whether God exists, it is "If God exists, can he not give approval..."

This is hand-waving that strongly suggests that you are unable to provide a defence of your position. I do not presuppose the existence of God, and especially of *your* God (indeed, the post you quoted does not presuppose the existence of your God anyway, making it irrelevant). I'm not at all curious as to the responses you give to other people: I am curious as to the way you defend your position.

You have implied that you make certain moral judgements on homosexuality, not merely that such judgements *could* be made under certain beliefs - that would be a trivial observation to make. I suppose if you do not hold such a belief about homosexuality, then I'm attacking a phantom, but I strongly suspect that I am speaking to your beliefs.

You are, of course, free to engage in whatever topics of discussion you wish, but the manner in which you have completely backed off tells me that you yourself do not believe that you are able to defend your position against inquiry. In fact, the existence or nonexistence of God is absolutely irrelevant to the question of homosexuality, but that is an argument that I would explain in greater detail if only you would stick up for your position.

Quote:This is hand-waving that strongly suggests that you are unable to provide a defence of your position. I do not presuppose the existence of God, and especially of *your* God (indeed, the post you quoted does not presuppose the existence of your God anyway, making it irrelevant). I'm not at all curious as to the responses you give to other people: I am curious as to the way you defend your position.

None of them disputed the fact that God exists. In the post I quoted it stated whether God would approve of gay marriage (which would assume that he exists). I'll defend the statement that "It is reasonable that the Christian God exists".

Quote:You have implied that you make certain moral judgements on homosexuality, not merely that such judgements *could* be made under certain beliefs - that would be a trivial observation to make. I suppose if you do not hold such a belief about homosexuality, then I'm attacking a phantom, but I strongly suspect that I am speaking to your beliefs.

They are my beliefs.

Quote:You are, of course, free to engage in whatever topics of discussion you wish, but the manner in which you have completely backed off tells me that you yourself do not believe that you are able to defend your position against inquiry. In fact, the existence or nonexistence of God is absolutely irrelevant to the question of homosexuality, but that is an argument that I would explain in greater detail if only you would stick up for your position.

I guess you want to keep the discussion of God in this thread though this is a gay marriage thread. If you believe that the (non)existence of God is irrelevant to the morality of gay marriage, then what is the point of debating it in this thread? We can easily create another thread for this. Or perhaps exchange private messages. I would gladly continue this discussion.

Edit: Not today, however; I'll try to get back to you tomorrow. I have homework for tonight.

Quote:I'll defend the statement that "It is reasonable that the Christian God exists".

That is an area of interest, but I'm more interested in its applicability to gay marriage.

Quote:I guess you want to keep the discussion of God in this thread though this is a gay marriage thread.

Because it is directly applicable to gay marriage. Surely I don't need to go into the history of gay rights within the United States to demonstrate that religious views have impacted that history quite significantly.

Quote:If you believe that the (non)existence of God is irrelevant to the morality of gay marriage, then what is the point of debating it in this thread?

Because you disagree. Obviously if you agreed, then there would be no need to debate it in this thread.

Quote:I would gladly continue this discussion.

You seem particularly insistent upon divorcing the issue of gay rights from the issue of religion, and the only reason that I can come up with as to why you are so insistent is because you ultimately recognise that your religious views do not translate logically into views on gay rights.

You have brought up arguments against gay marriage. I am challenging those arguments. Are you going to engage, or withdraw?