Is the President an effective leader

Total agreeness. Bush isn't effective at all. If you're so good at facts, Mike200, you need to look and see the economic statistics for the last 4 presidents. 1) Regan: Big time national debt. 2)Bush Sr.: Same big time national debt. 3)Clinton: Huge surplus (in the trillions). 4)Current Bush: Largest national debt in the history of the US. I'm not at all pointing to the fact that the three debt boys were republicans, but.... And the group that attacked us?

Quote:And Al Quida and Iraq WERE our peoblems. They were direct threats to us, in case you haven't forgotten 9/11, the bombing of the U.S.S. cole, the attacks by Al Quida on over 100 U.S. Embassies around the world, etc.

Yeah, they were in Afghanistan under bin Laden. Not in Iraq under Sadaam. Nice try.

Quote:That was from FOX and I hated going there...

I concur. lol. If not mainstream media, then what? You have to be intuitive. Look beyond the fluff. Not everything on FOX is bulls**t (note the suggestion Mike200), just like not everything on CNN is liberalized. There is truth. Despite a vast majority of the nation being totally sick of this useless war that we're wasting money on, Bush plows forward like nothing is wrong. I say leave Iraq to the people that live there and lets ALL get the hell out of dodge. And as a final argument, Bush's vocabulary sucks!! A direct quote to British Prime Minister Tony Blair, when discussing France's economic dump, "The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for 'entrepreneur.'" 'Nuff said.

Minifan501 wrote:Total agreeness. Bush isn't effective at all. If you're so good at facts, Mike200, you need to look and see the economic statistics for the last 4 presidents. 1) Regan: Big time national debt. 2)Bush Sr.: Same big time national debt. 3)Clinton: Huge surplus (in the trillions). 4)Current Bush: Largest national debt in the history of the US. I'm not at all pointing to the fact that the three debt boys were republicans, but.... And the group that attacked us?
Man, how long is it going to take before you get it? National debt has nothing to do with economy. That is the money owed by government. What you should be looking at is unemployment, which is the lowest in 30 years, GDP which is rapidly increasing, inflation measured in PPI and CPI, which are decreasing (good thing, the means more value to american dollar), prime interest rate, etc. (There's alot of them)

These statistics all turn out positive. If you'd like to know where I got my economic statistics it comes from school economic and textbooks and the Bureau of Economic Analysis.

Quote:Yeah, they were in Afghanistan under bin Laden. Not in Iraq under Sadaam. Nice try.
Iraq broke the mandate of the Gulf War. Saddam violated an international treaty with us. This is our business.

Quote:I concur. lol. If not mainstream media, then what? You have to be intuitive. Look beyond the fluff. Not everything on FOX is bulls**t (note the suggestion Mike200), just like not everything on CNN is liberalized. There is truth. Despite a vast majority of the nation being totally sick of this useless war that we're wasting money on, Bush plows forward like nothing is wrong. I say leave Iraq to the people that live there and lets ALL get the hell out of dodge. And as a final argument,

Well I don't watch Fox News. In fact I watch alot more liberal mainstream media and read alot more liberal New York Times than any conservative media. But I always make sure to seperate the facts from the opinions of the writers. And when I see see the facts I form my opinion. You should try doing the same. Look up the economic statistics of the US rather than read an editorial about them. National Debt is one factor and it isn't part of a nation's economy. I promise you that if you do actually look at the facts, then you'll agree that our economy is doing well. If you look at the facts you'll have completely different opinions about everything.

Quote:Despite a vast majority of the nation being totally sick of this useless war that we're wasting money on, Bush plows forward like nothing is wrong. I say leave Iraq to the people that live there and lets ALL get the hell out of dodge.

You know we waste alot more money on socialist programs in the United States, I don't see you complaineing about them.

Leaving Iraq now would leave Iraq in chaos. It would leave in a bloodbath. A majority is tired of the war but a majority do not want us pull out of Iraq early. Iraq is becoming more sucessful, elections are coming up. Just realize that if we took your idea and decided to execute it, many will die.

Quote:Bush's vocabulary sucks!! A direct quote to British Prime Minister Tony Blair, when discussing France's economic dump, "The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for 'entrepreneur.'" 'Nuff said.
That had me laughing for sometime. Ok I don't think he was serious there but better examples of his bad vocabulary include "strategery" and "misunderestimated".

Now he makes mistakes, yes. In John Kerry's last speech calling for an end to the Iraq War, he said "American Troops should not be going into Iraqi homes and terrorizing women and children, Iraqis should be doing that." Now I assume it was a mistake.

The point is people make stupid mistakes in speech. Stop looking at that and look at the idea.

Shakespeare made up his own vocabulary. About 10% of all the words in his books, he made up himself.
Warren Harding made up his own word to describe the post WW1 time. He called it the "Return to Normalcy"
Just some random vocabulary facts.

you're right, pulling out of iraq would be no good. we'd have to withdraw with order and slowly so that we do not have to go in there again. moving a military costs a lot of money.

but what did we find in iraq? we actually didn't find any true WMDs. we found things that were able to launch these or even possibly develop these, but dont' all nations have these?

tallgeese wrote:you're right, pulling out of iraq would be no good. we'd have to withdraw with order and slowly so that we do not have to go in there again. moving a military costs a lot of money.

but what did we find in iraq? we actually didn't find any true WMDs. we found things that were able to launch these or even possibly develop these, but dont' all nations have these?
Yeah, immediately moving out would really be a bad thing. One of the things I don't like about it is that then America would leave what they started unfinished. That's not very responsible...

And as with all wars, there is a moral cause for fighting. We started fighting for WMD's, but now what are we fighting for? The freedom for Iraqi people. If we just withdrew the troops, the terrorists would take over and cause a lot of chaos with the new government in Iraq.

Also, Americans shouldn't be looking what had happened. What happened, happened, and nothing can't change it. The best thing to do is move forward instead of bashing on the President for making mistakes. Besides, everyone makes mistakes, small and big. Clinging onto the past gets us nowhere.

Those who do not know their history are doomed to repeat it...

Too true. I still think he's an idiot, but.... Hey, personal opinion here. Mike200, you make convincing arguments, and I enjoy debating with you.

Minifan501 wrote:Too true. I still think he's an idiot, but.... Hey, personal opinion here. Mike200, you make convincing arguments, and I enjoy debating with you.
Same feelings here my friend.

On the witdrawal thing.
Well there's no such thing as an immediate withdrawal. That wouldn't only be bad foir Iraq but it would probably be chaotic for our troops as well.

I do believe that Iraq will ready soon to take on its own government. The elections are coming up soon and they look promising. More Iraqi police officers and military are being trained.

I agree with Minifan and Mike, yes, I know, I'm shocked too.

I believe that the president is an idiot. An idiot who probably failed grammar many times.

But immediate withdrawl is not an option at this point, not only would it reflect badly upon us as a country, but it would most certainly endanger our troops, probably not only in Iraq, but in other countries as well because it would give the impression that if you try hard enough, you can get the troops out of your country.

I do not, however believe that Iraq will soon be able to take control of its government. To do that the country would have to accept and respect each other enough to be unified and divided at the same time. I don't think that they're at that point yet, nor that we can force them to get there. They have to settle their own differences. We can act as a mediator, but we cannot settle the arguments for them. I think that we will eventually have to draw out of there before the problems are completely settled though.

True. We don't want to be the parent over there-coming in and slapping hands whenever there's a disagreement. That just makes us look like a "world police" or something. And that's not what America needs to be percieved as. We need to get out of there as soon as possible. Notice the "possible". Right now it isn't, but soon....