Religion (God)

!xombile;79343 wrote: if that where the case would we not be seeing unique new species of animal that would somehow evolve into humans today?

No.

Dood;79349 wrote:well personally i prett much have a pretty good relationship with God and i mean i understand the doubt that others have i mean i have gone through it a crapload of times im not even gunna lie but in the end one has to ask himself why they are here i mean thats basically the overall truth that everyone wants to know which is why i still believe in god because i feel that there is purpose. but yea i have gone through questions that my own parents and my pastor have been able to not answer directly but i will never forget what one of my dear friends said, and i will paraphrase: Look out in nature and what do we see? we see many astonishing things dont we? we see beautiful flower orchards, we see incredible trees, we see Mt. Everest in awe, we see beautiful springs and oasises, we see incredible waterfalls, we see unimaginable space and the many wonders which are still to be discovered. His point was there is no way that this universe in which we live was of coincidence. Emotion had to be incorporated into the creation of the universe. and what of the concience in which every individual has? i mean one can agree that everyone has one, to an extent since there are people that are almost out of one. but that concience is always there. I mean i respect the doubt i go through it all the time but i guess all it boils down to is faith
as for this... we see beauty in what we percieve that others see as beauty, meaning that we are all "programmed" if you will by society as soon as we are born. we strive to be the same as everyone else (which is an evolutionary trait for survival mimicking the strong) and we see what we want to see. If you are watching a video of a basketball game and are told to count the passes that occur then a man in a gorilla suit runs into the middle of the court randomly, chances are that only 5-10% of the people watching the video will notice. Now your probably wondering what this has to do with anything, but this goes to show that people look for what they know is there, what they're told to look for, and what they think they should be looking for. So now as to the conscience, the principle applies, if humans were to go around commiting acts that are a crime against nature then we wouldnt be around. Early humans saw what behaviors helped them survive and what behaviors killed them. they then followed the behaviors that best increased their chances for survival. Is a desert beautiful to you? if not then your reason is that it is a dry wasteland. The wind paints pictures in the endless sand that is beautiful because it is all natural with no human intervention, it is nature at its purest. since the desert cannot readily sustain proper human life people automatically reject it and say that it is a wasteland and that it isnt a beautiful thing. nature is beautiful if we are adapted to live in it, and not because a god created it.

Ok here is where i stand on this whole thing.

I believe there is God. and i do believe that we were created by a divine being.

has anyone ever seen this short clip called "the watchmaker" (or sumtin like that). well it make a comparrison between a watchmaker and his creations and God and his. It basicly says that a watch is so complex, that it couldn't have develpoed itself, and that it had to be made by a watchmaker into what it is. This is much like God and his creatures. Everything is so complex, there is no way it could have just randomly formed from random pieces of material without some kind of divine intervetion, our watchmaker if you will.

my other point is this. yes chances are that the bible is probably somewhat destotred due to transaltion after transaltion from different languages, not to mention umteen different versions which use different ways of putting the same verse, which can make understanding it very confusing to anyone, experinced chrstian or random reader. but the argument that becaue it was written man from the get go make it inaccurate and basically "a load a crap" is wrong. all of that was written by divine intervention. iof course if you dont believe in God, I can see your argument about the possible corruption of the ancient text. its hard to believe in the intervention of something you wouldnt believe is there, or is it???

I do not believe in God but I have the utmost respect for those who do follow in their religions. However, I feel this quote holds very true:
"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."
~ Marcus Aurelius

I try to keep open-minded about the possibilities of the existence of God but right now I am living a very fortunate life as an atheist.

I actually also don't believe that people should keep using the argument "God doesn't exist because nothing proves his existence." For example, in the movie A Beautiful Mind:

The woman, Alicia, is asking Nash "How big is the universe?"
In response, he says "Infinite."
"How do you know?"
"I know because all data proves it's infinite."
"But it hasn't been proven yet?"
"No."
"How do you know for sure?"
"I don't, I just believe it."
"It's the same with love, I guess."

And I believe the same can hold true for God as well. I strongly think that a lot of our beliefs have to do with our upbringing: our friends and family, the environment we live in, the media, etc.

I mean, although my mom tried bringing me to church when I was younger, my family and my friends never really discussed religion/God. But, for a little while I believed in God -- but I kind of believed in him like I believed in Santa Clause. I wanted to believe he was real but I knew, or at least felt that he wasn't. Then I realized that the kinds of beliefs in the Bible did not reflect my individual beliefs/thoughts anyway... and so, I chose not to believe anymore.

I am independent to think for myself and refuse to believe whatever everybody else wants to feed me. When/if I feel that God truly does exist, I will believe and have faith. I don't need other people telling me what is the truth and what is not because these values/morals are for me to decide.

So, for those who might continue ask:
"Why don't you believe in God?"
Well then:
"Why do you believe in him?"
If you respond with "Because I have faith."
So do I, except it's faith in his non-existence. If you respect mine, I'll respect yours.

Quote:has anyone ever seen this short clip called "the watchmaker" (or sumtin like that). well it make a comparrison between a watchmaker and his creations and God and his. It basicly says that a watch is so complex, that it couldn't have develpoed itself, and that it had to be made by a watchmaker into what it is. This is much like God and his creatures. Everything is so complex, there is no way it could have just randomly formed from random pieces of material without some kind of divine intervetion, our watchmaker if you will.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcAq9bmCeR0

Quote:but the argument that becaue it was written man from the get go make it inaccurate and basically "a load a crap" is wrong.

Why?

Quote:I actually also don't believe that people should keep using the argument "God doesn't exist because nothing proves his existence."

That is how all knowledge is based. Things that have no evidence are treated as false until there is evidence. If we did it the other way, then I could claim that I'm God and demand that you worship me - since you have no evidence to disprove the idea that I'm God, you would then be forced to treat it as true.

It doesn't take faith to dismiss the idea that there are invisible dolphins that dance on your head while you are asleep - we can dismiss the idea because it doesn't have any evidence.

Zasch;79558 wrote:but the argument that becaue it was written man from the get go make it inaccurate and basically "a load a crap" is wrong.

Why?

why you may ask... here is why... after some thought i have realized that there is no way to prove that the ancient text has been tampered with from the get go. Of courses there is no way to prove that it hasn't been either. because of my faith i believe that it hasn't, but its up to you to choose what you want to believe, not me.

speaking of that, that is another thing that gets me. the constant sterotype that all chirstians are trying to convert everyone. yes in way we are but i personlly beleive (and i bet some people reading this couldn't give a crap what i beleive.) that yes, christian should spread the word of god, like other religions spread the word of theirs. but i dont think that it is ok to "shove religion down someone throat". if they have another religion already or dont have one at all, its their choice, not ours. if they dont want to be "converted", just leave them alone. all you can to is share you faith, adn if really want them to adopt your religion (thats the best word i could come uo with), all you can do is share your faith, whatever that may be, and then pray that they change their mind. but beyond that, its out of our hands.

hermione0457;79492 wrote:Ok here is where i stand on this whole thing.

I believe there is God. and i do believe that we were created by a divine being.

has anyone ever seen this short clip called "the watchmaker" (or sumtin like that). well it make a comparrison between a watchmaker and his creations and God and his. It basicly says that a watch is so complex, that it couldn't have develpoed itself, and that it had to be made by a watchmaker into what it is. This is much like God and his creatures. Everything is so complex, there is no way it could have just randomly formed from random pieces of material without some kind of divine intervetion, our watchmaker if you will.

my other point is this. yes chances are that the bible is probably somewhat destotred due to transaltion after transaltion from different languages, not to mention umteen different versions which use different ways of putting the same verse, which can make understanding it very confusing to anyone, experinced chrstian or random reader. but the argument that becaue it was written man from the get go make it inaccurate and basically "a load a crap" is wrong. all of that was written by divine intervention. iof course if you dont believe in God, I can see your argument about the possible corruption of the ancient text. its hard to believe in the intervention of something you wouldnt believe is there, or is it???
you dont need a god to create a time telling device, for this you can use the sun. so according to your analysis then your saying that there is a god but they are just an extrenuous being who isnt neccessary but to appease the masses... thats just my interpretation of the analogy that you are trying to use... also, the watch has evolved, starting from the sun to the sun dial and now to what it is considered... that means that the prospect of god would have evolved as well meaning even if your god were real your not worshipping the true god, but merely an evolution of an already "perfect" being... "From everything comes nothing, and from nothing comes everything" -D.G.

hermione0457;79579 wrote:why you may ask... here is why... after some thought i have realized that there is no way to prove that the ancient text has been tampered with from the get go. Of courses there is no way to prove that it hasn't been either. because of my faith i believe that it hasn't, but its up to you to choose what you want to believe, not me.

speaking of that, that is another thing that gets me. the constant sterotype that all chirstians are trying to convert everyone. yes in way we are but i personlly beleive (and i bet some people reading this couldn't give a crap what i beleive.) that yes, christian should spread the word of god, like other religions spread the word of theirs. but i dont think that it is ok to "shove religion down someone throat". if they have another religion already or dont have one at all, its their choice, not ours. if they dont want to be "converted", just leave them alone. all you can to is share you faith, adn if really want them to adopt your religion (thats the best word i could come uo with), all you can do is share your faith, whatever that may be, and then pray that they change their mind. but beyond that, its out of our hands.

I wouldn't really care about what religion anybody is, except that a lot of people try to use their illogical arguments in order to force behaviours on other people - banning gay marriage or stem cell research or evolution or whatever - and so this sort of thing requires much more extensive justification than "hey, faith!"

hermione0457;79579 wrote:why you may ask... here is why... after some thought i have realized that there is no way to prove that the ancient text has been tampered with from the get go. Of courses there is no way to prove that it hasn't been either. because of my faith i believe that it hasn't, but its up to you to choose what you want to believe, not me.

speaking of that, that is another thing that gets me. the constant sterotype that all chirstians are trying to convert everyone. yes in way we are but i personlly beleive (and i bet some people reading this couldn't give a crap what i beleive.) that yes, christian should spread the word of god, like other religions spread the word of theirs. but i dont think that it is ok to "shove religion down someone throat". if they have another religion already or dont have one at all, its their choice, not ours. if they dont want to be "converted", just leave them alone. all you can to is share you faith, adn if really want them to adopt your religion (thats the best word i could come uo with), all you can do is share your faith, whatever that may be, and then pray that they change their mind. but beyond that, its out of our hands.
also as for your "there is no way to prove that the ancient text has ben tampered with", in the original (as original as we know) the wording is completely different than it is nowadays meaning entirely different things. now if you want to contribute that to all of the translations then go ahead, but think of this, would god want his word distorted? I don't believe that he would, so if there were a god then he would have a redraft of the bible so as to get his meaning straight.

Zasch;79715 wrote:I wouldn't really care about what religion anybody is, except that a lot of people try to use their illogical arguments in order to force behaviours on other people - banning gay marriage or stem cell research or evolution or whatever - and so this sort of thing requires much more extensive justification than "hey, faith!"

well i cant make an argument about stem cell or gay marriage... but i will make one on evolution. Here is my point. Isn't evoultion still a theory? Then why teach it and not Divine Creation? (or whatever its sctually called but you get the point) yeah, by scienfific standards its a theory, but so is Evolution. and my other point with this issue is this. They say another reason for not teaching divine creation is the fact that it is unfair to the "non-christian" population, who feel that God is being shoved down their throats. well its not fair for me, a christian, to have something that says what i believe in doesn't exist haved shoved down my throat. I'm not saying teach on or the other... whats wrong with teaching them both??

Marine Corps;79779 wrote:also as for your "there is no way to prove that the ancient text has ben tampered with", in the original (as original as we know) the wording is completely different than it is nowadays meaning entirely different things. now if you want to contribute that to all of the translations then go ahead, but think of this, would god want his word distorted? I don't believe that he would, so if there were a god then he would have a redraft of the bible so as to get his meaning straight.

Because God allows free will. And if you think about it, yes the words have been changed to suit our needs, but our use of words have changed since then too.

Marine Corps;79698 wrote:you dont need a god to create a time telling device, for this you can use the sun. so according to your analysis then your saying that there is a god but they are just an extrenuous being who isnt neccessary but to appease the masses... thats just my interpretation of the analogy that you are trying to use... also, the watch has evolved, starting from the sun to the sun dial and now to what it is considered... that means that the prospect of god would have evolved as well meaning even if your god were real your not worshipping the true god, but merely an evolution of an already "perfect" being... "From everything comes nothing, and from nothing comes everything" -D.G.

Okay then, but your not getting the point of what i am trying to say. the analogy is a parallel between a watchmaker and his creation (the watch) and God and his creations (people, plant, animals...you get the picture). the type of watch or the history of the watch has absolutly NOTHING to do with the parallel!!!

This should be the right link to the clip... watch it for yourself before you argue about the history of the watch having something to do with my argument
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcAq9bmCeR0