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Quote:I don't think all american's are ignorant.
I like to think a little more positivly about them.....*scowl*
I meant your average american, not all of them ;)
Quote:Marraige became government domain when couples began receiving benefits, tax breaks, death benefits, hospital and visitation rights, child custody rights, on the grounds that they were legally connected in the eyes of the government. Just because the church started the idea of marraige, doesn't mean they are the only contributor, otherwise married couples wouldnt have any rights as a couple from the government.
That doesn't mean the government has the power to decide if gay couples should be able to marry or not.
Some may say I'm stuck in the dark ages but I believe gay marriage is wrong. Marriage is a union between a man and a woman not two men or two women. Yes that is based in religion but so are a lot of parts in our government because America's main attraction in the colonial era was freedom to practice religion. If we really want to go through our governments a take out or reform everything that has to do with relgion we would have a mess on our hands and approving gay marriage would be the first step to opening that can of worms. I don't see anything wrong with a government based on religion because religions give people a basic code of conduct which then acts as a basic code of conduct for society. Without our religion based rules like marraige being a union between a man and a woman, America's level of chaos and confusion would sky rocket.
Alright, let me write this real quick before my class because i always like getting into debates. I believe that gay people should be allowed to get "married" if they want to, but it would have to be a civil union because it is against most churches. I believe that civil unions for gays should be made legal everywhere because we can't tell someone who they can/can't love/marry. Being gay has also been proven to be genetic, and we can't change their genes. Even if it is their choice to be gay, and they want to have a civil union, then let them get married.
Quote:Some may say I'm stuck in the dark ages but I believe gay marriage is wrong. Marriage is a union between a man and a woman not two men or two women. Yes that is based in religion but so are a lot of parts in our government because America's main attraction in the colonial era was freedom to practice religion. If we really want to go through our governments a take out or reform everything that has to do with relgion we would have a mess on our hands and approving gay marriage would be the first step to opening that can of worms. I don't see anything wrong with a government based on religion because religions give people a basic code of conduct which then acts as a basic code of conduct for society. Without our religion based rules like marraige being a union between a man and a woman, America's level of chaos and confusion would sky rocket.
Who gave you the right or power to say gay marriages are wrong? Where is it written that same sex couples cannot marry? Where's the proof? Also, religion doesn't give people a code of conduct, that's one of the funniest things I've heard (no offense). If we lived in a theocracy then EVERYONE would have follow the same religion and we would be back in the late 1600s when the Salem Witch Trials took place. There would be intolerance and hysteria everywhere. Division of church and state was one fo the best things that could have happened ever. This country stands for freedom- freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of everything. Not allowing same sex couples to marry is going against the constitution-it's going against the country's core beliefs. Anyway, I won't get into it too much, as it would turn into a huge debate.
Quote:Alright, let me write this real quick before my class because i always like getting into debates. I believe that gay people should be allowed to get "married" if they want to, but it would have to be a civil union because it is against most churches. I believe that civil unions for gays should be made legal everywhere because we can't tell someone who they can/can't love/marry. Being gay has also been proven to be genetic, and we can't change their genes. Even if it is their choice to be gay, and they want to have a civil union, then let them get married.
But see, we live in the United States, a place where most of the population is intolerant and ignorant. People believe that they believe and they won't accept anything that goes against their beliefs. There is SUCH a complex scientific explanation for the attraction between people and why each person likes who (s)he likes. The problem is that almost no one realizes this and so people say "They're gay because they want to, it's all their decision; gay's are less than us, they shouldn't get married; marriage is for men and women not men and men or women and women." This my friend, is what you get when people are ignorant and intolerant. That is why there is so much racism in this country, but that's a different story.
Day wrote:Yes that is based in religion but so are a lot of parts in our government because America's main attraction in the colonial era was freedom to practice religion.
I'm not disagreeing with your main point.
But that part there is DEAD WRONG.
The main purpose people came to america was MONEY.
If you're taking or have taken AP History thats the first thing you learn.
[URL=http://www.course-notes.org/forum/showthread.php?p=25347#post25347]
These are the Forum Rules,
mak
Ummm. no?
What part of chapters 1-4 did you not read?
To Armando: I don't think the government has the right to tell gay people whether they can marry or not. I am just saying that when it gets to the point where the American public and or executive branch has proven itself incapable of making the correct decision(based on the constitution) it is the responsibility of the government as a whole to amend the constitution. To clarify the facts for people. We learned that from the civil rights movements (even though they are quite different issues).
Secondly: Money AND religion were BOTH motivating forces in why people came to america.
Day: I am not proposing we take out or reform anything, in fact from what i recall it is the folks opposed to marraige that are trying to reform. The laws of our country as they are now dont specify, except in those states who have changed them to do so. The only reason I would suggest changing anything, is if within the next so many years, the united states as a whole doesnt realize that banning gay-marraige is against everything we stand for. The fact that religion contributed greatly to america in the beginning, doesnt mean that it HAS to continue to be worked in at every opporunity. Just because some things involve religion, doesnt mean that we need to continue adding it in. The country is at a turning point here, to make a stand and say, we support religious freedom, and we wont reform our country to remove it completely from our past, but we WONT allow it to affect our future. The way we can say that is by supporting true equality, meaning marraige for anyone. And if you are planning on responding with a "marraige is grounded in religion" comment, let me save you a step, because as I have already explained, marraige as a whole is duly grounded in many different religions, and in the government. Therefore, unless the government is going to pull out of marraige completely, it (having the support of more people) has the responsibilty to provide the right to everyone.
Decedance: So you support civil unions as an alternative to marraige, I can take that as a valid compromise, assuming it gives gay couples the same benefits as a marraige would. Is that what you are proposing, or a more limited version of these rights?
Armando wrote:Ummm. no?
What part of chapters 1-4 did you not read?
I figured all AP teachers said the exact same thing.
at the absoloute core though, everyone, even those puritans, wanted money.
one of my essay responses was money over religion. Money ruled the whole thing. Religion was just a pretty face for a lot of it.
[URL=http://www.course-notes.org/forum/showthread.php?p=25347#post25347]
These are the Forum Rules,
mak
I'd still disagree :P
I think religious toleration and freedom was a BIG reason, ALONG with money. I don't think money was that much more important than the religious reasons.
Quote:Without our religion based rules like marraige being a union between a man and a woman, America's level of chaos and confusion would sky rocket.
Please explain. I dont see how a gay couple walking down the street holding hands and wearing wedding bands would spur America's level of chaos and confusion to increase.
Looking back on our history. Our founding fathers realised that the world is ever changing and society is ever evolving. That is why they made provisions for amending the constitution. Slavery, which was once a widely accepted practice has now been abolished. Look at our society, you hear much more profanity walking down the street than you would have fifty years ago (yes, I understand that this has nothing to do with the constitution, I was merely using it as an example of our changing society). People need to realise that you cant get stuck in the past. It is a fact, that gay marriage will soon be accepted. There will be a huge battle over it, but in the end, gay marriage will win out. I am confident in saying that within the next 25 years, it will become an acceptable practice.
Personally I dont see any problem with it whatsoever.
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