Gay Marriage?

you make a good point. But do you think animals choose to be homosexual. That is my point. You see, animals unlike us dont really have choices. The smarter an animal the more choices it can make. The better it can think. If a dog is homosexual then maybe it is retarted. You dont see your average everyday dog humping one of the same sex. Homosexuality is basically a choice that humans choose to pick cause they have the ability to violate the norms of nature. I believe also that anyone who is a homosexual has sinned in some way. This sin is derived from them not going by the laws of nature. Through evolution the human mind has become more complex. Constantly expanding its thought process, how to defy every rule and ever law nature has set for us. The main goal of every living entity on this planet as a species is to reproduce. Lets forget about religion for a sec. Every species has been put on this earth to reproduce and populate the planet. In most vertebrate species this requires the union of two opposite sexes. Now if we are put on this planet to populate as the species homo sapians, we should do so. But homosexuality contradicts the goal that is set by us as a species. It completely defys our natural instinct, to merge with the opposite sex produce a progeny. If you think I am boring you then you might not be taking my pov seriously. There is some logic in what I am saying and I have debated this topic many times at school. I am willing to accept all opinions if they have some substancial logic in them.

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Wow, wow, wow... Too many points to tackle, I will take each one by one....

Quote:you make a good point. But do you think animals choose to be homosexual. That is my point. You see, animals unlike us dont really have choices. The smarter an animal the more choices it can make. The better it can think. If a dog is homosexual then maybe it is retarted. You dont see your average everyday dog humping one of the same sex. Homosexuality is basically a choice that humans choose to pick cause they have the ability to violate the norms of nature. I believe also that anyone who is a homosexual has sinned in some way. This sin is derived from them not going by the laws of nature. Through evolution the human mind has become more complex. Constantly expanding its thought process, how to defy every rule and ever law nature has set for us. The main goal of every living entity on this planet as a species is to reproduce. Lets forget about religion for a sec. Every species has been put on this earth to reproduce and populate the planet. In most vertebrate species this requires the union of two opposite sexes. Now if we are put on this planet to populate as the species homo sapians, we should do so. But homosexuality contradicts the goal that is set by us as a species. It completely defys our natural instinct, to merge with the opposite sex produce a progeny. If you think I am boring you then you might not be taking my pov seriously. There is some logic in what I am saying and I have debated this topic many times at school. I am willing to accept all opinions if they have some substancial logic in them.
Animals do make choices - animals are smarter than you make them seem. Take a dolphin for example, it has almost the same intelligence as a human. It's brain is just as developed, if not more. The problem is that we have one type of intelligence while animals have others. Animals don't need to know how to do math, or how to read, or anything of the sort. All they need is to get through life. Animals have MANY choices which they must make everyday in their lifes. Animals that are homosexual are not retarded, the same thing happens to an animal as it does to a human. (With the exception(s) of childhood psychological trama and others) Now, you go on to say that homosexuals choose to be what they are, but you provide no proof to back up this most outrageous claim. Also, sins are NOT derived from the "rules of nature." Don't mix religion and nature ;) The human mind has NOT become more complex, it's actually LESS complex. We only use 10% of our brains, we used a LOT more centuries ago. Now, you say that the only reason animals and humans are is because they need to mate and reproduce. Now, that is true to an extent, but only for animals. For us humans, the goal isn't just to reproduce. Reproducing isn't even a goal of most people anymore. We have other things to live for, etc.

And remember, humans ARE animals, we are just more advanced. Hence the homo sapien sapien species.

I'm totally for the homosexual marriage thing- check out my awesome banner!
I have several friends that are homosexual, and they're all very great people. And I want for them, as I want for all my other friends, to find the loves of their lives and to be happy with them. It is unfair to deny them what I can have.
Marriage is said to be constituted as a union between a man and a woman in various religion (and Buddhism is not one of them; being a Buddhist, all we really want is inner peace). However, that's just how we've come to accept it because we see it as "normal". Now, consider this: homosexuality may be the normal way to go, and we heterosexuals may be the odd ones out. After all, six fingers on a hand is a population dominant trait. That wouls be the "normal" hand. However, most of us have five fingers. Homosexuality just may be the same way. And furthermore, when you study psychology- which, everyone should at one point or another; it's quite fascinating- you will find that many "experts" argue the point that everyone is bisexual at heart. And with good reason- the members of our own sex understand us far better than those of the opposite sex ever will. We often grow the most intimate with the members of our own sex- so, heck, why not?
As for is homosexuality a choice... Some say it is, others say it isn't. But as Armando argues, where is the proof? For either side? For someone with trisomy 21, for example, who has a triplet sex chromosome XXY- they will have more female hormones, their testes will be smaller, etc. Is that a choice? On a less drastic scale, one's genes may just have a slight mutation so that more estrogen is released. Could that have anything to do with sexuality? Possibly. And another thing, for anyone who opposes homosexual marriage- have you ever been in love? Have you ever been able to control those feelings you had during that time? Could you have stopped liking whomever you liked just because the President told you to? I couldn't. I couldn't stop liking the guy I liked even if I had a gun to my head. Homosexuality is the same way. You like who you like. And for those of you that haven't been in love, it's darn impossible to control your emotions when you're in love.
And lastly, the argument that all of my don't know, don't care pro- same sex marriage friends side with- it doesn't affect them, so they don't care. It doesn't bother their getting married to good men or women; so they don't care. Let the poor people live in peace. People like my friend Sean deserve to marry whomever they wish.

Of course. But animals are limited to the amount of choices they want to make. A dophin cant make the desicion to kill its own brothers and parents. That is completely against the norms of a dolphin. Whether we want to be homosexual or not is a choice that we all make. It is a choice that violates the norms of normal reproduction in our species. You are right. We only use 10 percent of our brain and a lot of it goes to waste. But as I said our goal is to reproduce as a SPECIES . I never said as individual beings. People dont know that the regular reproduction process is for the survival of us as a species. People only think of reproduction as a means for pleasure or in terms of keeping their progeny alive. Reproducing as a species is a totally unknown factor that 99% of us are not aware of. And to prove that animals are not that developed as humans due to their lack of thinking. Tell me. We have conquered the world so many times but did any animal conquer the world due to pure thinking. If a chimpanzee or a gorilla had the same mental capacity as us they would definitely taken over the world and we would be eliminated as a result. Im sorry im straying away from topic here but im just trying to prove a point. Gorillas are natural 3 times stronger than the average man. If they had the same mental capacity as us and were able to think and contemplate like us, they would be the dominant species in the world. This power to think has opened many doors for us. Some doors lead us to the survival of our species and some lead us to our ultimate doom. Homosexuality is basically a wrong door taken. No offence to you armando and other staff of this forum. Im just trying to defend my point. I will conclude here for good.

I will have to agree with apfaq on this. He has done study on this topic and has researched this all the way to the fields of anthropology. I worked with him on this as a project one and people actually opened their eyes for once. Homosexuality is just a bad choice that humans make.

lindsayrose wrote:Just wanna get a feel around the site I guess, what are your opinions? I know this site has people from all over the US, so Its a nice place to get a variety of opinions.

Personally, I feel that regardless of anyones view of homosexuality, moral, religious, any view on it, the fact is that the government is required to rule based on what fits best with our constitution and the spirit of America. That spirite being freedom, equality, and all that jazz, many times in the past the courts have ruled against public opinion to do what is truly correct. I think this is what is going to inevitable have to happen in this case, and what should happen. The fact that many people beleive homosexuality is against god's will, and that marraige is a union between one man and one woman only, doesn't truly hold any ground in the matter. The fact is that marraige is a government institution(with its origins in religion), legally wed heterosexual couples receive tax breaks, and other forms of government provided benefits. Therefore going along with the ideas america is based on, there is no logical grounds to deny any group of people rights to a government institution.

If the catholic church or one specific church was the only source of marraige's, and there were no government benefits for being married, then this would be a completely different issue. But as marraige's are controlled by both the governent and church, the only way a group can legally deny someone the right to marry, is if they are a church. In which case the couple then should have the right to enter into a non religious marraige, in which they would receive all of the same benefits, just without the religious attachment.

Responses? No hateful remarks or anything, just honest opinion on the political end of the concept. If you must express a personal beleive about the lifestyle behind the issue, than do so in a calm manner please. " I don't personally agree with the lifestyle, however on the issue of marraige..."

You know I have plenty of gay friends. I have always stood by my values and protected what I believe to be morally right. However, you raise a good point about entering into a non religous marriage. I believe that homosexuality IS WRONG and there is no denying that but this is America and the home of freedom.. which leads to EVERYONE being equal. Im am going to have to share your view with one of my friends... I believe that he is going to find it very interesting.

You and your friend make excellent points in my opinion. I usually view gay marriages in a social and and environmental point of view.

Exactly my view luaren, morally wrong but legally right.

Quote:A dophin cant make the desicion to kill its own brothers and parents. That is completely against the norms of a dolphin.

Umm.. Know much about animals? Black widow spider? Other cannibalistic animals? Animals that eat their own?